Da sich hier so wenige trauen...

[kayboard]

I´m really sorry that my idea to show some of my reference-pages was abused to start a discussion about the quality, functionality, table based templates with or without rests of dreamweaver code, etc. came from Mikey.

So what?! In my opinonion he does a great job! And everyone, who does not agree with his work should leave his hands from this templates.

I´m shocked about written comments, bourgeois answers.
It was not clear to me, that guys like me using CMSimple for fun, are part of a unfair, know-it-all-better, bleating community.
In accordance with your answers should I stop making pages, because I don´t care about the points above.

Kay

[mvwd]

Yes, Mikey IS doing a great job! As i wrote befor, the design is brilliant!

And this is NOT a discussion about quality, functionality or table-based design or not. This is a discussion about validation, which often fails in templates (btw. not only Mikeys). This CAN cause, that some users can not access your website. This CAN cause, that some functions are not working proper.
All the problems with invalidity or scripting-errors are falling back to this forum to be answered. It would be easier to help out of this problems, if the templates, the plugins, scripts, addons, menus.... were valid. So you can start to search for the real problem, without moving from one validation problem to the other, which can cause the problem or not.

I don't care about invalid templates, I can make them valid. But can all the thousands of users who are using CMSimple out there?
I'm sure, to fix it in the base (as the template, plugin, script... is written) will last minutes, maybe hours, but that's nothing about the hours and hours, the users and the forum have to spend time to fix the problems caused by invalidity.

I hope i could make clear, that it am not against Mikey an his templates itself. But i hope that all the coders, designers out there would take it to heart to make it easier for us, the users AND for themself.

mvwd.

P.S.: This discussion is always and in every forum the same....

[Holger]

@mvwd:
Thanks for writing down your opinion, without harming someone. As you said, Mikey IS doing a great job and you're doing a great job at this forum too.

P.S.: This discussion is always and in every forum the same....

Yepp, so let's take care that this discussion isn't done in a way like in the old forum.

It was not clear to me, that guys like me using CMSimple for fun, are part of a unfair, know-it-all-better, bleating community.

Kay, I don't know why you're so upset.
Anyway, since I'm a member of this community too, It's sad for me to read that I should be unfair, know it all better or that I'm bleating...
I think it's not possible to please everybody, but it's possible to write down your opinion without abusing the whole community.

And IMHO ALL in this thread involved members should think a little bit about that.

Holger

[kayboard]

@ Holger

I´m angry about the p u b l i c discussion about Mikey´s templates - and you did not start it.
You've tried to defuse the discussion via PM, because you have to know exactly where it ends - and you was right!
There is no reason for you to be sad. If so, excuse me please. It was not my intention.

I was naive enough just to show my webpages and expected critique for this work.

But two members took the chance to launch a debate on a completely different matter. Excuse me my english is not that good enough:
Vermeindlich freundlich wurde hier kritisiert. I´m not stupid, I´m able to read between the lines!

Kind regards

Kay

[Connie]

Hi!

yes we will continue in english here!

have a good day,

Connie

[beate_r]

Ok, the discussion has aged a bit, but anyway...

user mvwd had expressed doubts concerning the accessibility of Mikey's templates. Today i did a WAI evaluation of a site which i am currently working on; it is based on a template closely related to one of the pages Kay has referenced for discussion.

Four violations of WAI 1.0, actually formal ones: 3 alt-declarations missing in a navigational image map, and a missing form label in the search box of CMSIMPLE. Accordingly, the site is perfectly browseable with lynx and elinks (which is my standard test to ensure accesibility), and the designs can easily be read by my visually impaired friend (she needs to use jaws).

Also there is room for improvements, there is no reason for the critical remarks concerning dcwd's templates as issued by user mvwd. Although CSS based approaches are prefereable in my eyes as well, there is no reason to make an ideology out of it. I suggest some sound pragmatism and actual testing before criticising.

Back to the main topic: to me, backstage-musical is optically very appealing (and the prettiest of the sites presented here)

Beate

[CMSimple-Styles.com]

Das neueste Fireworks erlaubt auch einen CSS Export. Habe mal die 30-Tage Trial ausprobiert, ist nicht schlecht aber nichts für mich. Also schmeißt mal alle für Mikey zusammen damit er sich bei Adobe die neue Version holen kann

[mikey]

at this stage, i have no plans to deviate how I currently make the templates

if there is a 30 day trial for the software, the community, would of course, welcome others to download it and make some extra templates in CSS for cmsimple...

cheers
mikey