Copyright notice in XH

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svasti
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Copyright notice in XH

Post by svasti » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:06 pm

Hi all,
XH has now the following copyright notices:

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 * @author    Peter Harteg <peter@harteg.dk>
 * @author    The CMSimple_XH developers <devs@cmsimple-xh.org>
 * @copyright 1999-2009 <http://cmsimple.org/>
 * @copyright 2009-2014 The CMSimple_XH developers <http://cmsimple-xh.org/?The_Team>
As Peter Hartegs Version only had

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CMSimple version 3.3 - December 31. 2009
Small - simple - smart
© 1999-2009 Peter Andreas Harteg - peter@harteg.dk
I wonder why we need to include <http://cmsimple.org/> in the Copyright notice. Harteg sold the Copyright, but that is after 1999-2009. We don't have to know about it. Our copyright knowledge goes up to 2009. And there is no website mentioned in the GPL 3 Licence we are using.
What about changing the copyright notices to

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 * @author    Peter Harteg <peter@harteg.dk>
 * @author    The CMSimple_XH developers <devs@cmsimple-xh.org>
 * @copyright 1999-2009 Peter Andreas Harteg
 * @copyright 2009-2014 The CMSimple_XH developers <http://cmsimple-xh.org/?The_Team>
It seem an URL isn't required in the copyright field, as the Php Documentor example is

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/**
 * Page-Level DocBlock example.
 * @author Gregory Beaver <cellog@php.net>
 * @copyright Copyright (c) 2002, Gregory Beaver
 */
/**

cmb
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by cmb » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:47 pm

svasti wrote:I wonder why we need to include <http://cmsimple.org/> in the Copyright notice. Harteg sold the Copyright, but that is after 1999-2009. We don't have to know about it. Our copyright knowledge goes up to 2009. And there is no website mentioned in the GPL 3 Licence we are using.
Good point! However, why not referring back to cmsimple.org? Even though I don't endorse many things that are happening there now, I don't pretend it doesn't exist, and has not been the home of CMSimple 3.3.
svasti wrote:It seem an URL isn't required in the copyright field, as the Php Documentor example is
[...]
Good point again -- thanks for the inquiry. However, the copyright of CMSimple indeed has been sold to Gert Ebersbach, so Peter Harteg doesn't have the copyright anymore, and IMO we shouldn't pretend that we don't know that. Actually, we know the history better than many others (for instance, the German Wikipedia article about CMSimple).
Christoph M. Becker – Plugins for CMSimple_XH

svasti
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by svasti » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:49 pm

cmb wrote:why not referring back to cmsimple.org?
I think it has no meaning, as it has been sold. Like a telephone number with has been given to someone else. Referring back should rather be to "cmsimple.org in 2009 (http://web.archive.org/web/201012211004 ... imple.org/)"
Nostalgia about that domain name? It has become something else. Like a house having been sold and a different family is living there that completely changed the house.
cmb wrote:However, the copyright of CMSimple indeed has been sold to Gert Ebersbach, so Peter Harteg doesn't have the copyright anymore, and IMO we shouldn't pretend that we don't know that.
However we don't need to give it such a prominent place. As I understand there is no legal obligation to add the URL in this line. Why advertise CMSimple 4? Legal obligations should be fulfilled — but nothing more. Anyway, the URL is mentioned later in the copyright notice again and again, and we also say that the domain has been sold. So we don't hide anything by not placing this URL in a prominent place when we are not obliged to do so.

Tata
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by Tata » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:59 am

I would prefer excluding anything (in compliance to licences requirements) that may lead to any misunderstanding. My beloved example is: Buying brand new Mercedes, you have only its name on it, not its full history and/or genesis. These infornations are available elswhere, however.
CMSimple.sk
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But it's awful to ask without any effort to find the answer yourself.

cmb
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by cmb » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:52 am

svasti wrote:It has become something else. Like a house having been sold and a different family is living there that completely changed the house.
Tata wrote:I would prefer excluding anything (in compliance to licences requirements) that may lead to any misunderstanding.
Well, I get your point. So what about:

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 * @copyright 1999-2009 <http://cmsimple.org/archives/cmsimple_old/>
Christoph M. Becker – Plugins for CMSimple_XH

svasti
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by svasti » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:35 pm

Tata wrote:I would prefer excluding anything (in compliance to licences requirements) that may lead to any misunderstanding.
+1
cmb wrote:So what about:

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* @copyright 1999-2009 <http://cmsimple.org/archives/cmsimple_old/>
Unfortunately this leads to misunderstanding because of the big link on top of the old version:
Get the new CMSimple » Zum neuen CMSimple »
And I think <http://cmsimple.org/archives/cmsimple_old/> also is not correct, because 1999-2009 the page didn't exist. A copyright holder is not a website, it's a person or an institution, and 1999-2009 it was Peter Harteg. That should be documented and that's it. Full stop. Sending people to the link "Get the new CMSimple", may give them the impression, that Hartegs Project is well and alive and XH is just a fringe project sailing the slipstream of the real thing, which is CMSimple 4.

We don't have to send people to any of Gert's Websites, because that causes confusion. So we better don't do it.

Tata
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by Tata » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:37 pm

Again!
CMSimple_XH is neither CMSimple3x nor CMSimpleX, nor any other derivation or fork of whatever existed before. Basically the only heritage is the idea and principles. 99.999% of it is new (philosophy and principles). So my point is to present it as new selfstanding product. Short history of it may be put in help file or in readme or elswhere. But I would prefer to state only the newest actual information in its core files.
The copyright is another question. The copyright owner shall be discussed and commonly agreed.
CMSimple.sk
It's no shame to ask for an answer if all efforts failed.
But it's awful to ask without any effort to find the answer yourself.

cmb
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by cmb » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:48 pm

svasti wrote:A copyright holder is not a website, it's a person or an institution, and 1999-2009 it was Peter Harteg. That should be documented and that's it. Full stop.
Actually, it has been Peter Harteg, but now CMSimple is (c) 1999-2014 Gert Ebersbach. That Peter Harteg is the author is already credited with the @author tag.
svasti wrote:We don't have to send people to any of Gert's Websites, because that causes confusion. So we better don't do it.
ACK. But I suppose nearly nobody reads this line in the source code.
Tata wrote:CMSimple_XH is neither CMSimple3x nor CMSimpleX, nor any other derivation or fork of whatever existed before. Basically the only heritage is the idea and principles. 99.999% of it is new (philosophy and principles). So my point is to present it as new selfstanding product.
CMSimple_XH still uses a lot of code from CMSimple 3.3, and I see its development more as an evolution than a rewrite or something completely new.
Tata wrote:The copyright is another question. The copyright owner shall be discussed and commonly agreed.
The copyright ownership is clear IMHO: CMSimple 3.3 (on which CMSimple_XH is obviously based) is (c) Gert Ebersbach; all the other code is (c) The CMSimple_XH developers.
Tata wrote:But I would prefer to state only the newest actual information in its core files.
ACK. I'd rather get rid of the long and mostly outdated copyright section in cmsimple/cms.php, which IMO is most confusing (among others, it states "CMSimple version 3.3 - December 31. 2009"), but we are obliged to keep it due to the GPL license.
Christoph M. Becker – Plugins for CMSimple_XH

Holger
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by Holger » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:04 pm

Some thoughts:

AFAIK the GPL requires to keep the copyright notices of the authors. I think there is not much room for changes.
If one release a fork a GPLed project, he just puts his copyright above the existing entries.
That's common practise and you can find it that way in a lot of other projects.

So why not keep Peters copyright notice of CMSimple 3.3 as it is/was and put our new stuff above that?
Just Cosmetic :? .
And we must not take care on things happened after CMSimple 3.3 was released if we do so...

It's no option to do that like Gert and reduce the XH - copyright to: "uses code and modules from CMSimple_XH".

svasti
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Re: Copyright notice in XH

Post by svasti » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:03 pm

Holger wrote:So why not keep Peters copyright notice of CMSimple 3.3 as it is/was and put our new stuff above that?
Just Cosmetic :? .
And we must not take care on things happened after CMSimple 3.3 was released if we do so...
+1

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