CMSimple LE - any informations?

General questions about CMSimple
bjorn
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by bjorn » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:36 pm

cmb wrote: Would have been nice, if you had dropped a note -- it was somewhat irritating to suddenly see cmsimple-le.eu offline. And it took quite some time to remove the leftovers.
You are right, sorry! Well, I have a very good excuse but it is a bit private :P
cmb wrote: IOW: IMHO it's better to bring the old plugins and templates up to date to work with CMSimple 4 and CMSimple_XH instead of keeping the classic CMSimple compatible with newer PHP releases. YMMV.
I get your point. But I still think there is a need for a small and simple version of CMSimple. The newest versions are not exactli small and simple. However, it is a matter of taste.

Bjorn

cmb
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by cmb » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:00 pm

Hi Björn,
bjorn wrote:I have a very good excuse but it is a bit private
Okay. :|
bjorn wrote:The newest versions are not exactli small and simple.
Indeed, they are not small. CMSimple_XH 1.5.4 uses 4.5 MByte of disc space. Actually that's not much nowadays, but it's much more than the classic version needs. OTOH: it's quite possible to use CMSimple_XH without any plugins (except the Utf8 plugin since XH 1.5.4). This way the system needs far less than 1 MByte -- small enough IMO. The only thing that's missing is the editor and the filebrowser; but it's possible to integrate a small editor as a plugin. If this would be available one could have a fully functional CMSimple_XH in still less than 1 MByte.

Christoph
Christoph M. Becker – Plugins for CMSimple_XH

bjorn
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by bjorn » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:24 pm

Gert wrote:Hi Björn,

you offer a download CMSimple version 3.5 Released Januar 2013.

You are not allowed to do so :!:

Please rename your project (and the Logo and the textes on your website) to CMSimpleClassic, CMSimple_Classic, CMSimple_LE or something like that. Please don't use the single word "CMSimple".

The GPL3 license allows to use the code, but not the name "CMSimple"

I allow to use the word "CMSimple" for CMSimple GPL3 based projects, but only in conjunction with "_anything" or any additional term without an empty space, like CMSimple_XH (or CMSimpleXH),

Gert

PS: I have sent you a mail by your mailform - doesn't it work? ;)
Hi Gert,

First of all I'll like to say, that I have the same interest as everybody else to avoid confusing in connection with the different versions of CMSimple. All files in my release have a copyright note telling users that the name is "CMSimple Classic" and that it is based on the original CMSimple version 3.3. My website also clearly tells that I offer modified versions of the original CMSimple. But I'll not promise to add "Classic" each and every time i write CMSimple. And I'll not accept that I have to use an underscore in stead of a space between "CMSimple" and "Classic".

I started my modified version of CMSimple in 2011 in understanding with Peter Harteg, who at that time was the author and copyright holder of CMSimple. I have also gotten permission to use documents and manuals. So I think I have done everything according to the rules and regulations. It is fair use.

It seems to me like you have some seriouse mistakes about your rights under GNU GPLv3. Perhaps you should read the license once more. If you after that still think I violates any of your rights then please point out exactly what rule you think I violate. We can always talk friendly about solutions to common problems, but don't try to force me and other people by claiming rights you don't have.

Björn

Gert
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by Gert » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:54 pm

Hi Björn,

you have already changed your download page:

CMSimple Classic version 3.5 Released Januar 2013

Thank you very much ;)

It's not much, what I'd like to see, but I would like CMSimpleClassic or CMSimple_Classic, without an empty space.

Now you should also rename the zip: cmsimple3_5.zip => cmsimpleClassic3_5.zip or CMSimple_Classic3_5.zip or all in lower cases, that's not so important. But please not cmsimple3_5.zip.

And than I think, you should begin your project with version 1.0, and not continue the versioning of the old CMSimple. What you want to do, if the 3.x is not enough? This would be confusing, because the new CMSimple is CMSimple 4.

But that's also a hint only,

Gert

PS: Your link CMSimple version 3.3 Released Dec 2009 is not up to date.

There is CMSimple 3.4 available for download: http://cmsimple.org/archives/cmsimple_old/?Downloads (in the archive) and some older versions.

PS2: Again: GPL means the code, not the name of a project.
Gert Ebersbach | CMSimple | Templates - Plugins - Services

bjorn
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by bjorn » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:30 pm

Hi again Gert

Well, I think we find out how to avoid too much confusing. But somehow I also think you should consider to put an extension to the name of your version of CMSimple, so it is not confused with Peter Hartegs original versions, but that is of course completely up to you.

Thanks for the warning about the outdating of links to cmsimple.org. I had seen that, but thanks anyway. But it takes a little time to restore a web site from an archive.

By the way you have made a problem for all users of old versions of CMSimple by changing cmsimple.org. The help menu in admin mode links to cmsimple.org.

You are right that GNU GPLv3 doesn't say much about the name of a program. But if it is very important to you to make rules about naming of other copies then you should supplement the terms and require that modified versions of your code are marked reasonably different. (See section 7 in the license). But even if you do that you will not be able to put restrictions on people who modify earliere versions of CMSimple released under GPL.

Björn

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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by Gert » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:03 pm

Hi Björn,

I fear you have not understood, what happened in November 2012:
bjorn wrote:But somehow I also think you should consider to put an extension to the name of your version of CMSimple, so it is not confused with Peter Hartegs original versions ...
I have purchased all rights of CMSimple since version 1.0 :!: - I have made a contract with Peter Harteg about this and paid for CMSimple.

My new CMSimple is the Original, I don't have to add anything to the name. To document the big step of development, I have made the step from CMSimple 3.4 to CMSimple 4.0.

Nobody but me has the right to publish a CMSimple 3.5 :!:

But be sure, I don't want to be an Apple ;)

Additional to the rights of GPL3 (code), I allow to use the name "CMSimple" for Community projects and other CMSimple related projects, but only in conjunction with an additional term, without an empty space.

I ask all users of the CMSimple Codebase (GPL3) for own projects, to accept the name conventions, so it is easier for all,

Gert
Gert Ebersbach | CMSimple | Templates - Plugins - Services

bjorn
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by bjorn » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:25 pm

Hi Gert

I can see your problem and I don't want to make any difficulties for you or for anybody else. I will do my best to let people know, that my version of CMSimple is named "CMSimple Classic".

But you are wrong if you think you have purchased "all rights" to CMSimple. You have to respect the rights other people got from Peter Harteg before you purchased CMSimple from him. Peter Harteg released several versions of CMSimple under GNU GPLv3. Peter Harteg could have but did not at that time make any restrictions concerning how to name copies of CMSimple. This license gave CMSimple users some rights and obligations you can't buy or take back at a later time.

The GPL licens requires that people who make new versions place his or her name on it to distinguish it from other versions. That is all. So the sad news to you is, that anybody can release a modified copy of Peter Hartegs code and call it "CMSimple", if they mark it as required.

As said before you can put extra restrictions on future versions you make. But you can't take back rights people already got.

Björn

Gert
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by Gert » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:49 pm

bjorn wrote:So the sad news to you is, that anybody can release a modified copy of Peter Hartegs code and call it "CMSimple", if they mark it as required.
I hope, we not have to find it out.

You seems not to understand:

It's MY code now :!: I have the copyright and "all intellectual rights", so it is written in the contract.

And I'm sure, you have not gotten any rights from Peter for a "CMSimple Classic" - never. If you have an agreement with Peter Harteg about "CMSimple LE", so show me documents please, and I will accept it. But it is easier for you and for me, if you would accept the name conventions and name your project CMSimpleClassic or CMSimple_Classic, and not write on your website:

CMSimple 3.5 is released - that is a hoax and really confusing,

Gert
Gert Ebersbach | CMSimple | Templates - Plugins - Services

bjorn
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by bjorn » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:18 pm

Hi Gert,

Now I think we are repeating ourselves.

In Peter Harteg's CMSimple version 3.3 there is a legal.txt giving me and everybody else the right to redistribute and modify without any restrictions on name etc.:
CMSimple - a Simple Content Management System
Copyright © 1999-2009 Peter Andreas Harteg

This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public Licens or GNU Affero General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
I began to modify and redistribute CMSimple because Peter Harteg stopped to develop CMSimple for long periods of time. And I continue to do so now this because nobody else maintain the original CMSimple. This is exactly one of the basic ideas behind free software, that users can keep it alive even if the author stops working on it. If you think I break any terms in the the GPL license then please tell me what and where.

Björn

svasti
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Re: CMSimple LE - any informations?

Post by svasti » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:21 pm

Just looking around in the internet concerning this debate here.
It seems, the name of a gpl software may not necessarily be free.
wikipedia.org wrote: Mozilla Corporation software rebranded by the Debian project
... At issue were modifications not approved by the Mozilla Foundation, when the name for the software remained the same. ...
In 2006 the Debian Project subsequently rebranded the Mozilla Firefox program, and other software released by Mozilla, so that Debian could continue to distribute the software with modifications ...
Mozilla Foundation owns the trademark “Firefox” and claims the right to deny the use of the name and other trademarks to unofficial builds.

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